Emma Elizabeth Lucia

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nextyearsgirl:

This is an enormous chain and I’m sorry, but I need to say this:

The laws in the Old Testament were set forth by god as the rules the Hebrews needed to follow in order to be righteous, to atone for the sin of Adam and Eve and to be able to get into Heaven. That is also why they were required to make sacrifices, because it was part of the appeasement for Original Sin.

According to Christian theology, when Jesus came from Heaven, it was for the express purpose of sacrificing himself on the cross so that our sins may be forgiven. His sacrifice was supposed to be the ultimate act that would free us from the former laws and regulations and allow us to enter Heaven by acting in his image. That is why he said “it is finished” when he died on the cross. That is why Christians don’t have to circumcise their sons (god’s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don’t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus.

When you quote Leviticus as god’s law and say they are rules we must follow because they are what god or Jesus wants us to do, what you are really saying, as a Christian, is that Christ’s sacrifice on the cross was invalid. He died in vain because you believe we are still beholden to the old laws. That is what you, a self-professed good Christian, are saying to your god and his son, that their plan for your salvation wasn’t good enough for you.

So maybe actually read the thing before you start quoting it, because the implications of your actions go a lot deeper than you think.

/An atheist who understands Christian theology better than Bible-thumpers do.

^

(mic drop)

boom

whoa.

Damn.

I’m going to fucking memorize this shit.

I will forever perform this monlogoue when people start sprouting religious shit

I’m reblogging this for the comment above, nothing whatsoever to do with the gifs of the original post.

I’m not one to start an argument for arguments sake, and I never usually reblog, but I didn’t want to bypass this for a few reasons. But before I begin, I want to clarify that 1) I am a practising Christian and 2) I am very much for gay rights and equality for all. Yes, you can be both. I’m not reblogging and adding to this to cause an argument or a debate, or to anger or annoy, but there’s a few things I just wanted to set straight:

a) The laws in the Old Testament (or Hebrew Bible if you prefer, as I’m pretty sure if I was Jewish, I wouldn’t want the Holy book of my religion to be referred to as ‘old’) are part of the covenant with Moses. Now yes, they are to do with sin, but there is no direct reference to Adam & Eve (Exodus ch. 20). A slightly pedantic point, as I guess if the 2nd account of creation is taken literally (see Genesis chapters 2 and 3), then they are to blame. But let’s not forget that there are two accounts of creation within Genesis, and I’d like to point out that as a Christian myself, I don’t take them literally, but some do.

b) According to the Gospels, Jesus was crucified, died and rose again on the third day (that is, the resurrection is in Matthew, Luke & John, but not in Mark). Historically, crucifixion was a brutal death for rebels, which of course, by challenging and changing, Jesus was. The ideas that he died to save us from sin, amongst others, came after. The Jews at the time expected the Messiah to come some day (as Jews do now), but the Messiah brings ‘the end times’ (apocalypse), and crucifixion was not a part of the job description. The idea of Jesus saving us from sin, is a theological faith claim. There are hints of it within the Gospels (noting that they are written after Jesus’ death by believers with different agendas). Also, Jesus saying ‘it is finished’ is attributing to his fulfilment of Old Testament prophecy, and also fulfilling God’s demands of him. He only says it in John’s version of the crucifixion, he says other things in the others.

b) ‘That is why Christians don’t have to circumcise their sons (god’s covenant with Jacob), that is why they don’t have to perform animal sacrifice, or grow out their forelocks, or follow any of the other laws of Leviticus’

Actually, many early Christians DID get circumcised. As early Christianity was a Jewish sect (part of Judaism) and was accepted as so, and many other Jewish sects had different beliefs also. Judaism at the time was more about correct practise than belief. There were many Christian groups; Jewish Christians that circumcised, and Jewish Christians who didn’t, Gentile (non-Jewish) Christians who circumcised as they believed that they had to convert to Judaism to be Christians and uncircumcised Jewish Christians. St. Peter led a Jewish Chrsitian movement (you can read about it in St. Paul’s letter to the Galatians) and St. Paul led a Gentile Christian movement (you can read about this from St. Paul’s POV in a few of his letters, but check out Romans and Galatians). St. Paul wrote that Jesus started a new, inclusive covenant for Jews and Gentiles alike, which is why Gentile Chrisitians didn’t need to become circumcised. He had nothing against Jewish CHristians getting circumcised, but as Gentile Christians already had a place in the covenant, and salvation in Jesus, to get circumcised and follow Torah on top of that was to say that covenantal law was more important than Jesus. I wrote an essay and my undergraduate dissertation on this recently, which is why I know some stuff! Judaism and Christianity eventually split ways of course.

Also, it was God’s covenant with Abraham, not Jacob.

As for the other laws, I’m not sure. But Christians don’t disregard the Old Testament completely, it wouldn’t be in the Bible otherwise. Also Jesus quoted the Old Testament, and so did St. Paul. Also Jesus is though to fulfil Old Testament prophesy.

c) I disagree that following Old Testament law, such as the ten commandments, makes Jesus forgiving sins invalid. Does this mean that as a Christian, because I believe Jesus died for me, that I can go around killing people, having affairs, stealing, etc? Pretty sure it doesn’t cancel that out! I don’t think following good ethical values like this mean Jesus died in vain for me. It means that I am fulfilling Jesus’ rules, ‘love one another, as I have loved you’. Plus, Jesus was a Jew.

d) I have read a fair bit of the Bible, as it is essentially my degree. While I entirely disagree that Jesus thinks that it is wrong to be gay, and that gay is a disease, and that gay people will go to hell, or whatever homophobic comments some Christians throw out, I think you are 1) wrong to assume that Christians do not read the Bible before they quote it, especially when you’ve got a few facts wrong yourself. It’s a big book remember, plus, although it is divine revelation (inspired by God), it was penned by humans, and we are imperfect. 2) should remmeber that the Bible doesn’t discuss everything, and while I’m not defending Christians who hate or judge, on ethical or moral issues not covered, CHristians try their best to use their holy book (as they are entitled to do) to judge these situations. They are bound to misinterpret at times, because they’re taking a rule about one thing, and making it fit an entirely different situation. 3) it is unfair to judge all Christians and think we all think the same thing 4) you weaken your argument with the petty ‘bible thumpers’ comment. While some of your points are ok in places, there’s no need to throw out an insult. I agree with your views on homosexuality, yet you’ve insulted me, think about that (ditto the person who refers to religion as ‘shit’ in their comments.

Also, someone said in an earlier comment that Jesus was ‘anti-leviticus’ and quoted Hebrews as Jesus. The letter to the Hebrews was written waay after Jesus died. Little is known about the author and it is definitely not quoting Jesus.

sincerely, the pro-equality and gay marriage Christian who has read the Bible and is writing the final assignment of her three year, undergraduate theology degree.

(Source: drunkonstevphen)

It really does come to something when this scene of Glee (as pictured on the left) is virtually the only thing I liked about the entire episode, because of the picture on the right.

(It’s the only picture I can find of me wearing it, and I can’t be bothered to explain the context of it, or who the guy standing next to me is)